WHEN THINGS GET BAD, THEY GET WORSE...FUKUSHIMA

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 20:47.

 

Image - Perry, Ohio First Energy 

My Dad had that expression:  "When things get bad, they get worse."

I remember he used it when he was discouraged or tired.   

But he provided examples related to his farming operation.   So, if there was a drought, and the orchard began to wither, he would point out that certain trees which were suffering from a virus would croak.   The bad was the drought, and the worse was the death of the tree.   Stress and strain.  pushing the limits.  Cascade effect.

This is precisely what we are observing in Japan.   

The earthquake was the bad.  The tsunami the worse. and then the problems cascaded. 

Can you imagine being a worker at the power plant being aware that your life is absolutely on the line but trying and hoping to resolve the problem to save hundreds of thousands of other people the radiation contamination?

This situation is a perfect example of why we can't have nuclear power.   We can never prepare for cascade effect....we think we can....but we are wrong.  

I hope this works out.  Japan has already been the only place nuked in war, they don't need this experience.   In a weird way I wish I was there at the reactor working on the problem.   I think I could get those Diesel standby generators running again.   I would give it hell!  When it comes to making equipment run...I have never taken NO for an answer.

wikipedia has the most complete and up-to-the-minute information regarding this sitation.   Jimmy W - your on the fly encyclopedia is an honor to humanity.

 

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Wishful thinking

Submitted by lmcshane on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 21:42.

My dad thought like you, Jeff. Sadly, my dad is dead.

we think we can....but we are wrong.

Submitted by noner on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 22:10.

and my daughter - one of the most beautiful souls I know - is down wind from Tokyo -Portland is down wind - no? certainly "down current".

and deserves nothing wrong.

 

 

 

is tHIs the best we can do?

certainly our world deserves a bit more compassion and selfless love - no?

when is health not more important than wealth?

Cleveland: Down wind from several nuke plants

Submitted by Lee Batdorff on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 22:00.

Cleveland is down wind from the Davis Bessie (Betty Davis) Nuclear Power plant outside Port Clinton Ohio. In addition, Cleveland is down wind from Chicago Illinois, which has at least six nuclear power plants. Take a deep breath.

Fukushima

Submitted by westward on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 23:57.

Your Dad was right, and that is depressing, JBuster. It looks that the Japanese nuclear facility, with the quake resistant buildings, top notch technology, was not able to deal with the aftermath of a major quake, and the backups for the cooling failed. Does it matter that the plant was 40 years old, not 4? Can any nuclear plant operate as expected with a major quake? Isn't a loss of power to the safety mechanisms be expected? Can humans operate at the facility at peak performance when a major quake has occurred, followed by a huge tsumani?

Are we foolish enough to build more nuclear power plants?

And Debra, if it is any consolation, KOMOnews reports that fallout is not expected to reach Washington State, not far from Orgeon.

At the same time, Japanese officials may not be releasing all the information that they have, and they are up front saying that they can't get close enough to the reactor to do a full assesment.

DW - all systems will fail - always

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 00:53.

 Failure is part and parcel of the continuum.  Without failure the system is out of balance.  The more you plan to avoid failure, the more you unbalance the system. Everything fails. Failure is natural. 

The problem with nuclear failure is that failure is radioacive and kills us when we go to work on it.  And you can't see it. or taste it. or feel it. You just get zapped.  buzzed. cruel

That's a serious problem. 

I say stick to failure modes that allow butt headed humans to continue to turn the wrenchmechanical systems that will eat up a few ...workers - and then get back to normal.   Hey, I was working on the Russian dam blow out way back then 

Half lifes of thousands of years just isn't in my league.   

Where's that cold one you mentioned...

 

 

 

JB, the view on balance

Submitted by westward on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 01:22.

The view on balance is as depressing as your dad's sayings, but probably as accurate. It is why I can't watch nature shows; they end up eating each other.

What were you doing at the Russian dam blowout? that would be an interesting story to be told.

Anyway, the exposure to radiation is known to be silent, and deadly. I grew up near Oakridge, and this topic has always been a hot one in the area, with cancer rates that zoom off scale.

The guardian.uk is reporting: The emergency cooling system at a second nuclear reactor at the Fukushima power plant has failed, raising fears of serious accident but officials have said the low radiation levels pose no risk to human health.

I don't believe the officials in their stance of no risk.

I see the discussion about the fallout maps, and they are now being regarded as a hoax because of the way the maps having the fallout occur, and that map used jet streams, and discussion that this is not how the spread happens, exactly. So I turn to Wikipedia on the subject of nuclear fallout, and hope that there material was written by those in the know. Good information is hard to find unless one is a physicist.

You talk about your dad and

Submitted by JournalistKathy... on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 00:48.

You talk about your dad and factory work. That type of talk is why unions should not ve destroyed in Ohio--Kathy Wray Coleman

Kathy - I met you at Imperial Ave during vigil

Submitted by Jeff Buster on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 01:11.

 I have been thinking of union issues - with lmcshane and others - and I have had some first hand experience with u issues. I have been bolstering my mind to put those thoughts down here.  Soon.  Stay on me.  But the unions need to get away from the "work to rule" bs and "work to produce".   I just left a jobsite where the steward wanted to impose an operator on a lighting generator.  That's total bs.   I will post photos soon.   

ps, I appreciate your court reporting.  I have had similar experiences. Stay on it. Best Jeffb

Sandwiched between two nuclear reactors

Submitted by lmcshane on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 09:44.

  Davis Besse and Perry Nuclear power plants--CLE+ doesn't fare too well if we have an earthquake.

Bad maintenance more a problem that eathquakes for Ohio nukes

Submitted by Lee Batdorff on Mon, 03/14/2011 - 13:30.

Earthquakes in Northern Ohio historically have not been very big. However Worst Energy has a very poor track record for the Davis Bessie nuclear power station. Since this utilitiy also operates the Perry plant, there is a good chance that trouble could happen to Perry as well.

A problem at Perry could cause a lot of down wind havoc for far northeast Ohio, Erie PA, Buffalo NY and southern Onterio which are all down wind from Perry.  If something really bad happens at Perry we'll just not be able to travel east to visit these places and keep checking the wind direction to see if radioactivity occasionally blows upon the Cleveland area.

I don't know if a massive earthquake on the New Madrid fault along the Mississippi River would disturn the Chicago area nukes. Such an earthquake could cause major disruption to our natural gas supplies since some natural gas pipelines run through the New Madrid fault region.